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I’m kind of uncomfortable with the concept of thinking like a woman or thinking like a man. Clearly there are differences between genders and points of view, but I lean more toward believing that the way one thinks is a result of how one was brought up and one’s environment. I’m guessing that a girl raised with seven brothers would have a much different approach to the world than a girl raised with seven sisters. I’m not sure if that contradicts my first sentence or not. ;)
For what it’s worth, Loren, I never assumed that you were or wondered if you were a woman when I first began reading your blog. You left too many clues that you weren’t. Funny, people miss the obvious markers in a person’s life and writing that all but scream it in 48 pt black type.
You’ve had a difficult month—I’m so glad that you are on the mend and feeling better now!
I’m suddenly reminded of “Lola,” the great cross-gendered song by the Kinks.
I feel compelled to point out that in addition to my post on this, the issue was also discussed in the comments here for this blog post of Plum Crazy.
She mentioned that “his” was a female key word, while “her” was not a male key word, and concluded that Gender Genie thinks women should write about men. haha.
We concluded also that the Gender Genie is gender biased.
I suspected right from the start that the Gender Genie was sexist, and assuming that women have poor writing skills compared to men.
A woman friend of mine took it as a compliment that her writing was declared male - and then felt awkward about it. I think that’s evidence that even women tend to think women are less talented at the written word.
That said, Trish Wilson scored as a female on the few blog posts of hers that I plugged into the Gender Genie. And I wouldn’t consider her to be a girly diary style writer (haha) - she’s mostly a political/social issue blogger. Though I’m sure a lot of people would consider her topics to be very “feminine”. Of course a lot of her posts are about domestic legal issues, and a lot of them refer to men - so maybe she just uses a lot of his/him things, and like Lesley though, maybe Gender Genie thinks if you talk about men a lot, you must be a woman. lol.
And I wonder if “because” and “actually” are treated differently in the “blog post” choice of the Gender Genie. Because actually, “because” & “actually” are conversational words - not proper written words… But I would consider blog posts to be more conversational… despite all this “bloggers are journalists” crapola.
I’m kind of uncomfortable with the concept of thinking like a woman or thinking like a man. Clearly there are differences between genders and points of view, but I lean more toward believing that the way one thinks is a result of how one was brought up and one’s environment.
I totally agree. That was my big gripe with the whole Kevin Drum debacle. That he, again got it into his head that there are no women political bloggers because they can’t take the heat of the political kitchen like men do. He basically said straight out that political topics were necessarily basically mud slinging affairs which women found generally distasteful. LOL. (I particularly liked Suburban Guerrilla‘s response to that nonsense. haha.)
But at any rate, I do NOT think that it’s “normal” or “healthy” for someone to be verbally abusive and vitriolic just because they’re a man. I don’t think it’s good for anyone to be like that, frankly! And I’ve known women who were.
Of course you’re called a shrew if you’re female & like that… and it does seem more acceptable if you’re a man.
But so is promiscuity. Doesn’t make it healthy or wise or intelligent!
And I’m sorry, but there are lesbian couples who’ve complained that they’ve had “power struggle” or abuse problems in relationships. So that dog-eat-dog style of being in The Arena all the time, instead of diplomacy and equality in communicating & relating is not confined to the male of the species.
And I think the fact that gay & lesbian couples often have the very same relationship problems as straight couples proves there’s no venus & mars crapola. Just a lot of toxic relationships, abuse, and dysfunctional families.
(Besides, that couple who wrote that Venus/Mars relationship advice book are not only now divorced… But I heard a lot of their advice to women was akin to advice you would give on how to cater to someone with the very serious mental problem of Narcissistic Personality Disorder!)
No, I’m also convinced that foul manners are not a male attribute, but the product of poor parenting or just dysfunctional family upbringing.
At any rate, these are your post highlights:
This little gizmo claims that it can detect whether a writer is a male or a female by using some algorithm developed by some brainy people.
Interestingly, male pheromones wafted so strongly off Ledeen’s column that it almost made The Gender Genie pass out.
The Gender Genie believed they were all male. Especially Malkin.
haha!!!
Chloe, in light of the dust-up that Kevin caused this week (and which I didn’t know about until your comment), I’ve been thinking quite a lot about gender based writing, since reading your comment.
I don’t believe that it’s gender that makes the difference. There are men who write chatty, home based blogs, too. I don’t view them as writing like a woman. Any more than I look at a blog like Digby’s or Josh Marshall’s and think that either one writes like a man. To me there are different styles of writing, but good writing is gender-neutral. And so is poor writing, for that matter.
That’s what bugs me about approaches like the Gender Genie which, I do think, assesses writing on the basis of quality rather than gender. It seems to me that gender bias is built in to the algorithm. Clean, crisp writing scores higher on the male side. Good professional journalists score as male, whether they are male or female.
That sort of thing feeds biases that turn up in places like Kevin’s post. I think if Kevin was honest with himself, he’d admit being sucked into that bias, too. And I am as well. Admittedly. Looking at my political sidebar, there are what...six blogs written by women? I know that there are more out there.
On the other hand, my other blog roll is populated by more women than men. They write about other things. That’s not an indictment—it’s that they have different interests and write about them. In my view that only makes their blogs non-political. The views and topics expressed are varied, which accommodates my interests, which are also varied. Kevin, perhaps, should just admit that he has a narrow range of interests.
As well as a gender bias that men write better and write more interesting blogs. His other rationalizations—such as women not being able to stand the heat of political mudslinging—are just nonsense.
It has been quite some time since I’ve listened to “Lola”, so I googled for the lyrics. Wonderful! The last line is perfectly ambiguous..."And so is Lola.” Lola is...what? Glad that the narrator is a man or glad that Lola is a man? Truth be know, I’d never listened to it that carefully before or heard about the cross-gender thing. Oh what I’ve missed all these years. That cracked me up.
Oh, Chloe, if you want your gravatar to show up, you have to enter the email address, in the comment form, that you registered with your gravatar. That’s how my blog is able to go to gravatar and request the image. As long as you enter both the email address and your blog address, my blog will only reference your blog address in your ‘posted by’ link. The email address is buried and inaccessible to any robots or other email address miners.
I don’t believe that it’s gender that makes the difference. There are men who write chatty, home based blogs, too. I don’t view them as writing like a woman. Any more than I look at a blog like Digby’s or Josh Marshall’s and think that either one writes like a man. To me there are different styles of writing, but good writing is gender-neutral. And so is poor writing, for that matter.
That’s how I always saw it too. But in light of that whole debacle. And particularly in light of The Gender Genie factor… I now realize that there still is this sexist idea that women write diaries and men write blogs. (As if either of those terms has any real firm hold on a writing style anyway! lol.)
That’s not an indictment—it’s that they have different interests and write about them. In my view that only makes their blogs non-political. The views and topics expressed are varied, which accommodates my interests, which are also varied. Kevin, perhaps, should just admit that he has a narrow range of interests.
Oh exactly. If you look at my sideblog (and particularly it’s own page where I actually do make comments) - I link to TONS of stuff that are political in nature.
However, I just don’t make a big fuss out of it.
I’m just “past” really getting into discussing politics. I’ve done it all before. And when I do decide that something is interesting enough to converse about - I go to other people’s blogs and join their discussions on it. Like YOURS, for example! haha.
I always loved that song “Lola”. haha. It’s hysterical.
By the way, I have entered the correct e-mail for Gravatar. As I said, it works on Haloscan comments fine - just not yours. :(
[Chloe] That’s how I always saw it too. But in light of that whole debacle. And particularly in light of The Gender Genie factor… I now realize that there still is this sexist idea that women write diaries and men write blogs.
There’s the rub, eh? There is still this sexist idea that women write piffle and men write important stuff. And portions of both sexes opt right in to that entire system.
How about the notion that people are all different with as many different outlooks on life as there are people? And the ones who blog bring something unique to the blogisphere. Male or female, we’re not all Hemingways or Menckens, nor should we be. Variety and individuality are a lovely mix.
Discounting bloggers soley because they are one sex or the other is self-limiting. Of course, Kevin admits that he doesn’t really enjoy reading women’s writing. That’s a disturbing admission if you think about it for more than a couple of seconds. That is, shall we say, a very privileged attitude.
Exactly.
There’s the rub, eh? There is still this sexist idea that women write piffle and men write important stuff.
Which is really ridiculous because look at The Diary of Anne Frank. It’s a classic, and required reading in school.
Of course, Kevin admits that he doesn’t really enjoy reading women’s writing. That’s a disturbing admission if you think about it for more than a couple of seconds.
I didn’t know that, but I thought it was rather disturbing within the first split second.
How does he even know that, after all.
This sexism is exactly why many women writers have often used male pseudonyms, after all.
No, from what everyone’s saying about that joker - he won’t even give a blog the time of day if he thinks it’s by a woman. Someone on some comments thread said he only got attention from that guy after the guy found out he was a man - apparently his last name he uses sounds like a woman’s first name or whatever.
It’s not that he doesn’t enjoy women’s writing, it’s that he can’t (or won’t) enjoy writing if it’s by a woman. And why would that be?
I’d better clarify. I went back to check Kevin’s statement (in his comments) about reading women’s writing. Here’s what he said:
“I’m especially not saying there isn’t a reason for all this. I very much suspect that male bloggers prefer reading (and therefore linking to) other male bloggers. That includes me.”
That is a different thing than saying he doesn’t like to read women’s writing. Or is it? Apparently that’s the implication I took away.
As for why he thinks that way? Only he knows for sure.
Dear Chloe and Kate:
As I am sure you know, the Gender Genie was probably using “Neutral Language” as a yardstick for part of its algorithm. Just as male language and standards are the “Universal Standards,” “Neutral Language” is the standard for language and it is anything but NEUTRAL, as Mary Daly has made clear. As we are all raised in a misogynist social system, we all internalize these standards.
Since when is conversational writing “Female?” I am an oldster who is new to this blogging and writing shtick (as you can probably tell from my inability to follow writing rules), but I am not new to raising a ruckus and a conversational style really works in the political hell raising world.
Keep up the good work and screw worrying about the “Genie Gender Jerks.”
We have bigger things to worry about!
Tuli
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I suspect that you’re right, because despite the fact that it correctly said my writing was written by a man other tests I’ve taken have actually suggested that I “think like a woman, and I was a little dismayed to discover how many of my readers thought I was a woman until they heard about my recent surgery.